From the U.S. Government Accountability Office, www.gao.gov Transcript for: Auctioning Off First Responders’ Radio Waves Description: The FCC is scheduled to hold an auction in 2021 for access to radio waves currently used by police and fire departments across the country. We discuss the effects this auction could have on the first responders whose communication systems rely on those waves. Related GAO Work: GAO-19-508: Emergency Communications: Required Auction of Public Safety Spectrum Could Harm First Responder Capabilities Released: June 2019 [ Background Music ] [ Background Music ] [ Andrew Von Ah: ] First responders may not have alternative spectrum that they relocate to which could jeopardize the communications they currently have. [ Matt Oldham: ] Welcome to GAOs Watchdog Report, your source for news and information from the U.S. Government Accountability Office. I'm Matt Oldham. All around us all the time are radio waves and these waves can carry television and radio signals or satellite and cell phone communications. A portion of these waves is set aside for first responders to use in some of the largest police and fire departments in some of our largest cities. And Andrew Von Ah, a Physical Infrastructure director at GAO, is here to talk about a public auction of this segment of radio waves. Thanks for joining me, Andrew. [ Andrew Von Ah: ] Matt, it's great to be here. [ Matt Oldham: ] So do I have that right, the government is selling radio waves? [ Andrew Von Ah: ] Well, not exactly. The Federal Communications Commission, FCC, auctions licenses to use radio waves or spectrum as we like to call it. So it's not exactly selling it but auctioning licenses for its use. The government does this to support an efficient use of the spectrum. It's a finite resource, and we want to make sure that we use it as efficiently as possible. We also want to make sure that there is not interference between users of the spectrum where that can occur. And we also do this because frankly it produces revenue for the government. We had an auction in 2017 of a portion of a 600 megahertz band that resulted in revenues of over $7 billion. The auction we're talking about here or the potential auction is that FCC estimates that it might produce around $2 billion in revenue. [ Matt Oldham: ] So we're talking about an auction of a portion of the spectrum. [ Andrew Von Ah: ] Right. [ Matt Oldham: ] Who's currently using this portion of the spectrum? [ Andrew Von Ah: ] In 1971, FCC allowed public safety users to use a portion of the T-band. So the T-band is known as the T-band because it was initially used for television broadcasts. TV broadcasts still use it across the country. Currently, 925 public safety agencies hold licenses in this band. First responders such as police and fire departments in 11 major metropolitan areas use a portion of this T-band. For example, the New York City Police Department relies on it for responding to 911 calls. The Boston Fire and Police departments, the city and county of Los Angeles all use and rely on the T-band. [ Matt Oldham: ] And is there a plan for where these first responders can move their communications? [ Andrew Von Ah: ] There is not a plan currently. So public safety officials in three of the major metropolitan areas that we talked to in New York and Boston and Los Angeles said that they had looked around and found that there really wasn't any alternative spectrum for them to be using. FCC also looked at alternative spectrum and found, in many places, there's not very much out there available or it may not be available at all in some cases and so that presents a real problem for relocating these users. In addition, costs associated with moving these users to other bands to relocate them to other spectrum, FCC has estimated to be around $5-6 billion. And that's just assuming that alternative spectrum is available. [ Background Music ] [ Matt Oldham: ] So it sounds like the FCC is going ahead with the planned public auction in 2021 of the T-band. And it could cost as much as $5-6 billion to relocate the public safety departments currently using those radio waves, but relocation plans aren't finalized yet. So Andrew, what's at stake if the auction goes through and we haven't solved the relocation question? [ Andrew Von Ah: ] So really it's the ability of public safety officials to communicate effectively could be jeopardized. So for example, in Boston officials really talked about -- there is about 170 different local, county, state agencies that are all operating in the T-band and that enables interoperability between them. And they really credited that ability for their successful response to the Boston Marathon bombings in 2013. So maintaining that interoperability, for example, is what's at stake. That's going to be very difficult to maintain on alternative spectrum. [ Matt Oldham: ] So does this report offer any recommendations on how to not lose that interoperability? [ Andrew Von Ah: ] It does and GAO doesn't often make recommendations to the Congress but in this case we are recommending that Congress consider legislation to continue to allow public safety agencies use of the T-band spectrum. [ Matt Oldham: ] And finally what is the bottom line here? [ Andrew Von Ah: ] So the bottom line is really if this auction proceeds that there are a lot of potential negative consequences. First of all, first responders may not have alternative spectrum that they relocate to which could jeopardize the communications they currently have. And secondly, the cost of relocating them being around $5-6 billion is well in excess of the estimated $2 billion they expect from the auction proceeds so a number of potential negative consequences. [ Matt Oldham: ] Andrew Von Ah was talking about how a mandated public auction of some radio waves may affect the first responders who currently rely on them. Thank you for your time, Andrew. [ Andrew Von Ah: ] Thank you, Matt. [ Background Music ] [ Matt Oldham: ] And thank you for listening to the Watchdog Report. To hear more podcasts, subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts. [ Background Music ] [ Matt Oldham: ] For more from the congressional watchdog, the U.S. Government Accountability Office, visit us at gao.gov.